 |
NoteWorthy Software, Inc. | Friday, 3 February 2012 |
Feature Request | !358 |
Please note that you can see and participate in the most current discussion for this topic in our new user community area
- https://www.noteworthysoftware.com/forum/?topic=5142 -
- https://www.noteworthysoftware.com/forum/?topic=5142 -
 | Started by Marty Dobin on 2005-08-28 17:50:05 | ||||||||
Is it possible to add noteheads that contain note names (i.e.: A,B,C,D,E,F,G) | |||||||||
| |
Reply 1 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-08-28 19:37:07 | ||||||||
G'day Marty, The answer is a qualified yes... Robert A. has produced a user font called NoteHedz which has just what you want. It is available from here: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/fonts/music-fonts2.htm In order to use it in NWC2 you need to:
In another thread Robert and I have touched on the possibility of a user tool to do the note head placement. At this stage no tool exists to do the job and one must place the note heads by hand. If there is sufficient demand, I'm sure one of the proficient programmers out there will come to the party with a user tool. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 2 by Robert_A. on 2005-08-29 09:13:43 | ||||||||
I might - repeat, might - automate this using Javascript rather than the NWC2 user language. It's easy enough to manipulate a text string. No promises. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 3 by Marty Dobin on 2005-08-29 12:21:35 | ||||||||
NoteHedz is a nice font but it doesn't have a set of reverse letters to be used for half-notes, whole-notes, etc. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 4 by Robert A. on 2005-08-29 18:01:13 | ||||||||
By reverse, I assume you mean black on white, rather than white on black? NoteHedz doesn't have them, and won't get them. The only reason I put letter-notes was for elementary schools (which note has which letter?), not for writing actual music that way. My next font might be for the purpose of digitizing the Papal Reformed Church music of Duk von Dojjers of the 14-1/2 century, who used sideways clefs and an 11-tone system before being burned at the stake. No promises. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 5 by Robert A. on 2005-08-30 20:18:52 | ||||||||
See my post on the other message thread about "round notes." The same concept would work for letters. The revised font does have both white on black, and black on white letters. But I haven't written code to make the automatic substitution for letters, just for round notes. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 6 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 07:36:41 | ||||||||
Merely titling a thread "feature request" is not as helpful as, say, "Feature request: Letters for note-heads." However: Have a look at: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-letters-notehedz-replacer.htm and also: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/NoteHedz130.zip Please note that the above are TEMPORARY, and will probably be removed by September 5, 2005. If successful, I may put them on the Scriptorium. The web page (downloadable) automates changing note heads to letter-notes, using the NoteHedz font. The zip file contains an updated version of NoteHedz, which includes both black-on-white and white-on-black note heads (as well as an oval style, for whole notes). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 7 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-08-31 08:40:42 | ||||||||
Hiya Robert, very neat. Unfortunately I think I've found a bug... When processing this:
I wound up with this:
After pasting it back onto the staff. Note that the result window didn't have this clip text, this is what I copied back out of NWC after pasting the contents of the result window. A little testing showed that NWC didn't like the results when the original selection had a note with an accidental. The problem exists with the Circle note head replacement too. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 8 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 09:01:48 | ||||||||
Not exactly a bug, so much as "feature is not present." I did not devote any thought to accidentals, or numerous other ways to modify a note. Just plain-vanilla notes. I might be willing to add accidentals, but am unlikely to make it more involved. I cannot see any use for letter-head notes outside of elementary education, where the kiddies would not be expected to read Rachmaninoff. Before I look at this very hard, I want to see if the feedback complains that the letters are useless unless written in the 12th century fraktur style of Hans von Dorkendoff. No point investing time in something so specialized. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 9 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 09:06:05 | ||||||||
Before I go any further, understand that the script parses notes, extracts some information, changes the note itself, and adds a preceding line with the necessary text item. The more complicated the note, the more complicated the parsing. Why would someone need letter noteheads, if the notes contain complicated information? | |||||||||
| |
Reply 10 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-08-31 09:28:13 | ||||||||
We'll have to stop meeting like this Robert :) Why would someone need letter noteheads, if the notes contain complicated information? Valid point. The only reasonable counter I can think of is specific to Pats' original request for round noteheads. In her husbands case he may well be an accomplished musician who just can't see the music. I suspect that if you resolve the problem for round notes then you have solved the problem for letter-head notes - assuming that that part of the code is common. However I certainly wouldn't go any further without sufficient positive feedback. Perhaps Pat can let you know how successful the tool has been in solving problems for hubby. We don't yet know if the round note heads have successfully alleviated the problems caused by his vision impairment. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 11 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 09:50:48 | ||||||||
The letter note-heads are my own "thing." The choir practices in a room that is used, during the day, to teach little kiddies. I noticed a number of posters with letter note heads. Each poster has maybe 4 notes, lettered. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 12 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 12:09:46 | ||||||||
NoteHedz version 1.30, mentioned above, is no longer available. Use version 1.40, which is already on my own web site and will eventually be on the Scriptorium. Version 1.40 does not alter any characters that were present since first release; it just adds the open letter-heads. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 13 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 12:56:46 | ||||||||
I just posted a revised version of the scripted web page, at the same URL given above. This one recognizes accidentals, and also does not seem to be bothered by various note modifications. If you already obtained NoteHedz130 (now obsolete), you can still use it for testing this. However, I recommend that you discard 1.30 and get 1.40 instead. Version 1.01, the original, will only work if the note heads are solid ovals (quarter note duration, or shorter). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 14 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-08-31 18:51:55 | ||||||||
Hi Robert, sorry mate, 'nother bug report :( I specified the clef as treble, the font as user2... Used this as source:
Got this result (copied back out of NWC2):
The "letter-head" selection appears problematic. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 15 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 19:11:10 | ||||||||
Hmm... Seems fixable. I'll have a look. A quick glance at the input and output shows that the input was parsed correctly, and the output is syntactically correct. Only the wrong character code numbers were assigned. Wasn't happening before, and didn't happen in my own test file. That limits the problem to a specific part of the script (unless I somehow scrambled the font when I removed the unnecessary circles). Incidentally, don't be bothered by the funny symbols that appear for the letterhead text (Yen symbols, etc.). The letterhead notes are in that part of the font. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 16 by Robert A. on 2005-08-31 20:01:43 | ||||||||
The problem has to do with a mis-conception of how NWC writes notes that are not based on the quarter note. This mis-conception is relected in my own mis-parsing of the clip. As you can see, notes with solid note-head are OK. Once a note is misparsed, the error carries through to following notes. I will have to improve the parsing to handle the other situations. But not right now. Until I submit a change, there's no point looking at other test cases. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 17 by Jay D on 2005-08-31 22:12:56 | ||||||||
Hey! Enough with the plain-vanilla stuff! Vanilla is not plain! Plain ice cream tastes like milk, not vanilla! | |||||||||
| |
Reply 18 by Robert A. on 2005-09-01 09:17:47 | ||||||||
I revised the page, from ground up, and posted it it at the same URL. It is beta 4, and I believe it should work OK now. It also deals with the situation where original note-heads are invisible (letters are not placed there). But I have not processed chords. This is warned. As for vanilla: Yes, there is such a thing as plain vanilla. It has one ingredient: vanilla. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 19 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-01 10:36:18 | ||||||||
Hey Robert - looks good - same test staff - worked perfectly. :) | |||||||||
| |
Reply 20 by Robert A. on 2005-09-01 10:52:26 | ||||||||
Thanks. The "pre-public-release" version is Beta4b, now uploaded. No script change since Beta4 (which you just tested). The only difference is micro-change in page layout. Incidentally, I notice that the person who originally made the request hasn't commented. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 21 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-01 11:01:22 | ||||||||
Incidentally, I notice that the person who originally made the request hasn't commented. True, but it's only been a couple of days - perhaps he has been unable to go online for some reason. Even so, it has been my deep suspicion for a long time that many more people use and benefit from offerings such as this without acknowledging it. Unfortunate really, because positive feedback is always appreciated, and I believe in credit where credit is due. Same as for my staff - if they get it wrong they need to know - and when they do a good job they need to know that I know and appreciate it. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 22 by Marty Dobin on 2005-09-01 15:19:04 | ||||||||
I'm still here guys. I've been following your repartee, but the subject is way over my head. I am not a programmer or accomplished musician, just a septuagenarian who never had a chance to play a musical instrument and is now just trying to learn to play the organ. My memory isn't so good any more, so I have trouble remembering what the notes are; thus my request. I use NoteWorthy to re-write music I come across so that my eyes are not confused by the extra staffs. I write chord notations above the staff, and currently the note names below. That is why I asked about lettered noteheads. This would simplify things a lot. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 23 by Robert A. on 2005-09-01 16:10:32 | ||||||||
OK. Not sure if the web page does what you want, but try it. Sounds like what you really want is for the letter to appear in ordinary text, large enough to read, in some convenient location. The same method I used to make the letter-head notes could be used for that, too. But instead of NoteHeadz replacing the ordinary notes, a standard text item would simply be added somewhere, using an ordinary font. However, my approach does not do chords. I believe it would be too difficult to analyze the numerous possibilities. The capability was originally intended for little kids, as a tool for learning notes. The expectation was that the resulting letter-notes would be enlarged, for display. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 24 by Robert A. on 2005-09-01 20:40:55 | ||||||||
You might prefer this: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-notelabeler.htm As with the rest, it is in a TEMPORARY location, and may be removed by September 5, 2005. If successful, I'll send it to the Scriptorium. This one does not replace the standard note-heads. Instead, it labels each note with its letter (and accidental, if any). You can choose the staff position at which the letters will appear. Typically, the top of the staff would be best. You can choose the font you wish to use. Nothing special is required, but if you happen to use "FretQwik" as a user font, then the accidentals will look musically correct (actual flat instead of b, for example). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 25 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-02 04:20:43 | ||||||||
Hey Robert, you're really on a roll aren't ya? One suggestion if I may, to my eye I would prefer to see the text label "at next note/bar" rather than "best fit". Personal preference I know... This is going to be useful for me. I'm still coming to grips with learning bass clef after 30+ years of only reading treble. I'm pretty much OK until I get to about the 3rd ledger line above (I'm seeing a lot of this in the BB charts I'm now learning) then I start to lose count. This will help me "internalise" these high notes so's I can recognise 'em at a glance - I'll just have to be careful not to become dependant... Thankyou, Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 26 by Robert A. on 2005-09-02 08:31:13 | ||||||||
Actually, I tried "at next note/bar" first, but for some reason didn't like it, in this context. No problem: Just open the page with a plain text editor (Notepad), and replace the text that calls for best fit, to the text that aclls for next note/bar (use NWC2 to determine the exact expression, case-sensitive). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 27 by Marty Dobin on 2005-09-02 17:11:56 | ||||||||
Hi Robert This is not what I had in mind. What I was looking for was something similar to what Hal Leonard does in his 'Easy Play' books; placing the letter inside the notehead, either black on white or white on black, depending on the note. By the way, I have been a registered user of NoteWorthy for quite a few years, starting when it was sold on a floppy disk. I am holding off getting the CD until NWC 2 is released so that I will then have a hard copy of the latest version. As a result, I am not able to participate in the beta testing. I started this forum question more as a request to see if this could be included in NWC 2. I am no programmer, and have very little knowledge of script writing. I really appreciate very much the time and effort you and Lawrie have put into this request. It is people like you who will make NWC 2 as sound as I'm sure it will be. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 28 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-02 20:00:20 | ||||||||
G'day Marty, please let me encourage you to get on the NWC2 "bandwagon". By using it you will be able to more clearly see how your needs might be met and be able to make more meaningful suggestions/requests. Plus you get to enjoy the benefits of new features now. The "clip text"/user tool combination is formidable in the advantages gained for manipulation of your music. Especially when you have tools like Andrew's "Global Mod", "Parts" and "Scratch". Not to mention the improved ties and slurs and other numerous updates (like accidental handling, ties with accidentals over barlines - the list just goes on!). I personally have ceased using 1.75 altogether! The eligibility requirements are here: http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwc2/ and the cost of the upgrade/replacement package isn't really that great. I'm sure you could purchase the V2 CD when it arrives for the same kind of outlay (replacement cost - probably only just covers postage and production costs anyway). Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 29 by Robert A. on 2005-09-02 20:06:53 | ||||||||
Marty: The method similar to Hal Leonard was my first try. It is now at: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-letters-notehedz-replacer.htm But you must be using NWC2. It is not an internal program feature, but a visual modification that is applied to finished music, just prior to printing. That should suffice. I can't imagine that the capability would be internal to NWC2, except that my own external script (JavaScript) might be re-written in the NWC2 internal scripting language (Perl) by those who know how. I don't. Even so, it would be a visual change just prior to printing, rather than a change to program functionality. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 30 by Marty Dobin on 2005-09-03 14:41:56 | ||||||||
Thanks Lawrie & Robert Lawrie I think you're right. I just ordered the CD. Robert I downloaded NoteHedz and saved replacer.htm (thanks). When I receive the CD I will download NWC2 and try them out. Again, thank you both for your helpful advice. Marty | |||||||||
| |
Reply 31 by Robert A. on 2005-09-03 18:44:05 | ||||||||
I should point out that the lettered-heads are oval (standard shape) rather than round - I didn't have room for both styles. Also, even using techniques such as staff layering, white notes, and disappearing stems, I can't seem to get a white background for the text-style noteheads. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to do it. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 32 by Marty Dobin on 2005-09-04 13:32:18 | ||||||||
The only way this could possibly be done is by creating a completely new font; and round noteheads would have to be used. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 33 by Robert A. on 2005-09-04 19:01:37 | ||||||||
Maybe to emulate Hal Leonard's style exactly, the note-heads would have to be both round and lettered; and indeed, that would require another font (there isn't enough room within NoteHedz to add all of the necessary components). But that won't happen, since emulation of a particular style is not near the top of the to-do list. It IS possible to white-out the staff lines behind lettered notes, so that the un-obstructed letter can be seen, without a program modification. Create two identical staves. On one staff, make the NWC note-heads visible and white. This will create gaps on the staff lines, where the NWC noteheads are. On the other staff, use zero staff lines, and apply the notes-to-letterheads method. You won't be able to layer the two staves, apparently because the text note-heads are not top-level (forward) graphics objects, so they will be covered by other things. However, you can save the page as a metafile, convert the metafile to raster image (for example, using Irfan View), then graphically superpose the two staves in an image editor. Things line up easily, so it is not a major chore, unless you are trying to publish a catalog of music that way. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 34 by Robert A. on 2005-09-07 20:43:47 | ||||||||
After asking NWC support, I discovered how to prevent staff lines from showing through clear areas in text-based substitute noteheads. The currently active staff is drawn last, even if it is not last in the vertical order of the staves. When staff layering is used, and the above drawing order is taken into account, this kind of effect is possible: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/B-NWC2.gif (The above file is temporary, and will be removed on September 10, 2005.) The profile of the background white-out must fit the foreground text, which it does for this case (since the text note was specifically sized for that purpose). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 35 by !ME! on 2005-09-08 04:16:25 | ||||||||
[quote="Robert A."] (The above file is temporary, and will be removed on September 10, 2005.) [/quote] Then why do you keep using temporary links? | |||||||||
| |
Reply 36 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-08 05:48:41 | ||||||||
Greetings !ME! Then why do you keep using temporary links? You seem reasonably intelligent, but perhaps you are a little lazy? A small challenge: why don't you think about it for a bit and then tell us the possible reasons you come up with as to why Robert might be posting these scripts to a temporary location? Please bear in mind that it is extremely unlikely that he is simply being difficult. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 37 by Robert A. on 2005-09-08 09:16:18 | ||||||||
I can be difficult, when I want! But there is a reason: This forum does not allow retroactive editing of a post. So I cannot put something for a short time, then go back and remove it once it is obsolete. Old forum messages are often discovered by others. Why frustrate them with old links? Why not leave it there permanently? (1) I do not want to accumulate old items, and (b) with time, the content may change. It is best to refer readers to some place that will (eventually) have the latest information, such as the Scriptorium. At this writing, the Scriptorium knows about these things, but has not yet posted the info, because its manager is on vacation. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 38 by Rob den Heijer on 2005-09-08 10:27:49 | ||||||||
Lawrie, We will possibly never know whether !me! is lazy. Ah wel... | |||||||||
| |
Reply 39 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-08 11:55:04 | ||||||||
Hiya Rob, yes, I notice Robert took pity on the little fella... Still, perhaps !he! will realise that people generally have good reasons for the choices they make... And that a small amount of thought will usually be enough to understand them. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 40 by Robert A. on 2005-09-08 19:08:21 | ||||||||
I should hope that I cannot be understood by a "small" amount of thought. But perhaps I am wrong about that. Meanwhile, the NoteHedz font is full and complete (version 1.60). | |||||||||
| |
Reply 41 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-08 22:22:46 | ||||||||
Sorry Robert, I didn't mean to imply anything. I just meant that a small amount of thought will generally reveal satisfactory reasons as to why people do things. Was trying to encourage !him! reach for some maturity instead of simply seeming petulant most of the time... | |||||||||
| |
Reply 42 by Marty Dobin on 2005-09-10 14:06:14 | ||||||||
It looks like you chased !ME! away. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 43 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-10 18:41:00 | ||||||||
I hope not Marty. Even though !ME! has a reputation for being a pest on this forum, he has still managed to generate some constructive conversation. I think !he! is just young and not "house-broken" yet. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 44 by DGF on 2005-09-11 13:16:49 | ||||||||
First I do not believe that !me! is a child. A pervert most likely and therefore untrainable or unable to be "housebroken". I have not had time to read this entire thread, but if the noteheads are replaced with letters on the staff, how will you understand the durations of the notes? If you are familiar with the tune it does not pose a problem I suppose. Between the time signature and flags it may be possible to figure it out, but it seems to create more of a problem than learning to read music the conventional way. If you keep at it, it will eventually come. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 45 by Robert A. on 2005-09-11 14:16:24 | ||||||||
The replaced noteheads would be solid or open, just like the original music. Stems, flags, and beams are retained. No problem with duration. The replacement can be automated for melodies (without chords), but it is problematic for chords. The replacement is intended to be visual, not functional. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 46 by Robert A. on 2005-09-11 18:01:13 | ||||||||
If you install version 1.70 of NoteHedz font as User 1, same size as staff size in pixels, Color:7=white:
That shows how circular note-heads (with letters inside) works. Notice that when a staff line is inside a circle, it is blanked out. (Versions of NoteHedz prior to 1.70 can't do the blank-out.) The font is on my web site, and will eventually be on the Scriptorium. I have not yet automated the above. The test scripts, which I exhibited a week ago, would need to be modified. It is not a profound modification, but I don't have time for it now. The trick is that the blank-out, the letter, and the circle are all placed at different staff positions, so that they can be overlapped at the same note. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 47 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-11 18:42:39 | ||||||||
G'day DGF - First I do not believe that !me! is a child. A pervert most likely and therefore untrainable or unable to be "housebroken". You may be right, but I'm unconvinced. More likely about 12 -14 and quite bright. And trying to fit in. Robert A. - Ma-a-ate! This project has become quite sophisticated. I congratulate you. Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 48 by Robert A. on 2005-09-11 22:06:42 | ||||||||
And not only that, I just updated the script page - but haven't released it yet. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 49 by !ME! on 2005-09-12 03:27:29 | ||||||||
You may be right, but I'm unconvinced. More likely about 12 -14 and quite bright. And trying to fit in. Errr,,, actually I'm turning sixteen the next month... But you're right, still a kid (child?)... | |||||||||
| |
Reply 50 by Rob den Heijer on 2005-09-12 06:51:39 | ||||||||
A child, I would say. A kid is a she-goat - hence the kid gloves. Having said that, Billy the Kid is an oxymoron: what is he, a she-goat or a Billygoat? !ME!, I apologise for being enormously OT again. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 51 by Lawrie Pardy on 2005-09-12 07:07:14 | ||||||||
Hi Rob, I thought a kid was a young goat, not a she (nanny)goat... I don't apologise for being O.T. - I get here so often that I'd end up spending my life apologising for it. :) G'day !ME!, I wondered if I mightn't have put the age bracket a little low. Oh well, pretty close anyway... Lawrie | |||||||||
| |
Reply 52 by Rob den Heijer on 2005-09-12 08:31:46 | ||||||||
Like Humphrey Bogart said: C.R. - Why did you come to Casablanca? Rick - My health. I came to Casablanca for the water. C.R. - The water? But we're in the middle of the desert! Rick - I was misinformed. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 53 by Robert A. on 2005-09-12 09:03:20 | ||||||||
Aah, the water... If anyone wants to beta test it: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/temporary/nwc2-circular-notehedz-replacer.htm As usual, temporary - until September 15, 2005. | |||||||||
| |
Reply 54 by !ME! on 2005-09-12 09:35:25 | ||||||||
As usual, temporary - until September 15, 2005. Oh my gawd!... | |||||||||
