1812 Overture

About five years ago I bought my first CD player! I immediately went nuts buying CD's. Including three, yes three, copies of Tchaikovsky's Fourth symphony. On one of those CD's was the 1812 Overture. Far out I thought. Wait! What's this?! There is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir SINGING what appears to be a hymm to the first part of it. I had never heard this before. Now comes the QUESTION! Where can I get those words? As some of them are sung very softly or drawn out, I cannot make them out. Does anybody perchance know where I might find the words? If it will help, I can give you the start. Help? Please? Thanks.

Michael King

If I remember correctly, this part of 1812 contains a Russian Orthodox liturgical hymn -"tropar"- which starts with the words "Spasí, Góspodi, ljoúdi tvojá..." (in Church Slavonic), meaning "Save, o Lord, Thy people...". In Tsarist Russia, not only the "people" but also the name of the reigning Tsar (and sometimes even his family) was mentioned in the hymn and I don't now remember the name of the Tsar in 1812. If your interested, I can send you the full text (modern version) and music (NWC, of course)as sung today in the Russian Orthodox Church, but certainly Tchajkosky's version is more elaborated and meant for a bigger choir than the version actually used in the Russian Church today.

Best wishes
Paul

Two suggestions:

1. They are singing the old (imperial) Russian National Anthem.

2. They are singing 'God the all-terrible! King' which is hymn number 491 in 'Hymns Ancient & Modern Revised'.

Paul and Peter:

Say you two aren't saints are you?:) I thank you both for your replies. I just started the CD and it starts out "O mighty God, preserve us from jeopardy", then it trails off so I can't understand what they are singing. Darn male voices anyhow!

Paul, I would love the words and music. Thank you very much!

Peter, where do I find that hymm book? Never mind, I'll just have to go looking for it I suppose.

Once again my thanks.

Michael King
Mykul1@earthlink.net

Hymns Ancient & Modern is the Hymn Book of the Church of England and only easly available in the UK (I would think). But fear not! Follow the link from NWC to 'The Cyber Hymnal' and there you will find 'God the Omnipotent!'

http://tch.simplenet.com/htm/g/godtheom.htm

HTH
Peter

Thanks again. I thought I was going to have to fly off to Jolly Old England and steal, I mean buy a copy!:)

My choir sang it last year for a gig with the Royal Marines and the Russian Army Orchestra and a somewhat mercurial Russian General conducting. It's a fantastic sing (particularly the bass voices) and was a great series of performances. I have the English lyrics but it will take me about 36 hours to post. I also have the SATB in Eb. Regards, John

Gee, John, only 36 hours? What are you waiting for, an invitation? :) Just kidding! Thank you for the info. Best regards;

Michael King

This Troparion translates into English as
"O Lord, save Thy people
and bless Thine inheritance.
Grant victory to Orthodox Christians
and grant us Thy great mercy."

There are many, many musical scores to this Troparion, which, before "God Save the Tsar" was the Russian National Anthem. I think I know which music you are talking about, the one which seems to be most popular in our weekly Liturgies, but do not know the composer.

The Tsar in 1812 was Alexander II. I think that the section you may be referring to in the 1812 Overture is "Bozhe Tsarya Xrani" - "God Protect the Tsar" - which became the Russian National Anthem after the previously referred to Troparion "O Lord Save Thy People" - a part of the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy whether Russian or not - which, before "God Protect the Tsar," was indeed the Russian National Anthem. Can't remember when the National Anthem was changed, but the most recent was composed by Lvov. I do know that "Bozhe Tsarya Xrani" is played briefly in the 1812 Overture; cannot recall "O Lord, Save Thy People" being part of it.

The English translation of "God Protect the Tsar" is
"God Protect the Tsar, He who holds power;
Reign for glory, for our glory.
Reign to the terror of our enemies,
Orthodox Tsar!
God Protect the Tsar!"

"Bozhe Tsarya Hrani
Silni derzhavi
Tsarstvui na slavu,na slavu nam.
Tsarstvui na strax vragam
Tsar Pravoslavni
Bozhe Tsarya Hrani."

QUICK! Name a well-known overture written between the years 1811 and 1813.

Actually, JM, I tried but couldn't come up with any. None of Beethoven's overtures was written in 1812 (according to the New Grove dictionary, the closest is the Fidelio overture of 1814). I thought of Mendelssohn and Weber, but 1812 is about 10 years too early for either of them. Schubert wrote an overture in D major in that year, but it's not "well-known". So I'm at a loss. What am I missing?

How about these not so famous operas presumably with overtures by Rossini:

L'inganno felice

Ciro in Babilonia

La scala di seta

La pietra del paragone

L'occasione fa il ladro

All first performed in 1812 and possibly written the same year. Although the premier of L'inganno felice was on 8 January 1812 - not a lot of time to get the production together.

Perhaps almost qualifying as famous is Tancredi (I've even played the overture) which was first perfomed on 6 Feb 1813 and therefore was probably finished during 1812. I'll go for that one.

Information from http://rick.stanford.edu/opera/Rossini

Stephen

Rossini - of course! That's what I was missing.

Prolific son of a gun, wasn't he?

I can console myself with the fact that none of the overtures you mention - not even Tancredi - seems to merit the description "well-known".

The only one I've ever /heard of/ is La scala di seta, and that's just because the overture is on a sort of "best of GR" CD I own. So I guess it's well-known if you happen to have that particular record. :)

Sorry, the "well known" was gratuitous!

I heard the question (without the "well-known") on a music trivia panel discussion at a classical radio station several years ago. Of course, the question draws laughter, because "1812 Overture" is definitely wrong.

If the time interval is expanded a bit, say 1809 to 1815, then indeed one can find "well-known" in Beethoven.

As for the start of this thread, the first time I ever heard the 1812 overture, on a vinyl record, it had the Russian chorus (group at beginning, men's chorus at cannonade). I don't have the liner notes anymore, but I do recall that the opening was supposed to be a "well-known" Russian church hymn to the Virgin.

It is said that song is best in Italian or French, less so in German or English. But Russian is the only language in which a composer tried to drown out the chorus with cannons.

Also have this great cd. It's Essentials Classic (Sony), isn't it?

This is what I can make out, although the fourth and sixth lines are kind of sketchy (at best).

Mighty Lorrrrrdddd,
Preserve us from jeopardyyyyyyy.
Take thee now our faaaaaate
and glowwwww briiiight in peniteeeeence
and bee-eeee with me
o'er trecherous and cruel and unease and through all and bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowwwwly prayerrrrr,
and by the liiiiight shining fully, light.
Grant uuuuus, O Lord, peaaaaaace agaaain.
<music>...

oh, I hear this in the 6th line now:
o'er our trecherous and cruel our heaven peace and to our land bring peace.

Regarding the sixth line, however it may be translated:

A Russian-speaking friend (who did not have access to the chorus in Russian, alas) tell me that the extra length (numerous syllables) of that line is a characteristic of some Orthodox Church music. Apparently, some of the words are conjugated in a way that introduces many syllables, and since the prayer has a rather fixed content, it is necessary to squeeze it all in.

I think the 6th line says:

O'er Trecherous and crue and grand unease and to our land
bring peace.

And, I think the 8th line says:

And by Light, Shinning Holy Light, Grand us oh Lord Peace
again.

But I am not sure.

i have gathered the lyrics from this page and put the right ones in one place, here:

Mighty Lord,
Preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our fate
and glow bright in penitence
and be-e with me
O'er trecherous and cruel and grand unease and to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by light, shinning holy light, grant us oh Lord Peace again.
<little music>
O mighty Lord hear our prayer.
...

But, The overture was not written in 1812, it was written around 1880. A little known fact is that Tchaikovsky never actually heard it the way he wrote it.

Understandably, Tchaikovsky felt this piece was "very noisy" and "with no artistic merit," which is true, especially for his music, but it is still a good, inspiring piece--the use it was supposed to serve when comissioned for the opening of the Moscow Exhibition. It was written to commemorate Napolean's retreat for Moscow (hence the French National Anthem that gets buried in the melee of runs and, what the original score calls for, "all the bells of Russia"). The singing was not part of the original intention. This was brought into the picture by a performance in the U.S. after World War I. It seems to have stuck, and other orchestras have picked it up.

Hey all,

I remember browsing this post last year...wow. Anyways, can someone maybe give me the name and any other pertinent info regarding a CD that has this 1812 overture w/ vocals? I just have the mp3 and am very much interested in purchasing the "legit" version. Please email @ mcarlyle@iastate.edu with any info...thanks!

Mitch

I hope this doesn't come across as being condescending, but did you try to read the ID3 tag in the mp3? Often they have the name of the original CD. In WinAmp you can view the ID3 info by clicking the middle button on the left.

Fred

While you are trying to find the 1812 CD with vocals, if there is a used (vinyl) record shop in your area, have a look. I remember having a record with the Russian chorus included. It was probably recorded in the early 1970s.

I think the Tsar was Alexander I

Fred,

Thanks for the advice...looked at the ID3 tag, and fate was not in my corner. No luck...but thanks a mil for the suggestion! Take Care.

Mitch

Has anyone here tried audiogalaxy to find this song?
I have this program and can seek it out if asked...

ok...i love the 1812 Overture. i love it so much that it inspired me to write a script. now, the beginning part of the song (the hymn) has been a mystery for me as far as lyrics are concerned. i have gotten a few words hear and there, but someone here got practically all of it, but not ALL of it...

the last line is VERY HAZY for me and i'm gonna guess on this one

Mighty Lord,
Preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our fate
and glow bright in penitence
and be-e with me
O'er trecherous and cruel and grand unease and to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by light, shinning holy light, grant us oh Lord Peace again.
<little music>
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
forever FOR-EV-ER

then the boom that starts out the music
...

this is so funny. i have long enjoyed the 1812 overture and have always wondered what the lyrics to the beginning were. it wasn't until tonight, however, when i finally decided that i just had to find out what they were. upon finally finding this site i thought "crap, august 1999, all this stuff will be outdated by now." but low and behold someone replies w/ the full lyrics 2 days ago! hahaha...awesome!! thanks everyone!!!!!

As I recall, it's "our treacherous and cruel enemies and to our land bring peace." An appropriate prayer at this time...

I was hoping to find the whole prayer here, but it seems I know as much as anyone maybe :-(

This particular chant has long fascinated me.

Actually I had never heard it until 1995 when Andrew Litton, conducting the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, perfomed the 1812 Overture to kick off a night of Russian CLassical Music. Being a freshly degreed Russian Major from Texas A&M, I was really upset that I could not attend (it was a sellout), so I had to listen over the radio.

The DSO brought over 2 Russian Chorale Tutors, and tought the affiliated chorus to sing the pieces, and to do so properly. As I listened over the radio, tears began streaming down my cheeks, it was THAT beautiful. And correct, to my ear.

Fortunately, it came out on CD, and it is one of my cherished recordings. It has become the standard by which I judge all 1812 recordings I have / hear. A close 2nd is one recorded in Mineapolis in the early 60s (I think) that featured actual muskets and bronze cannon from the US Mil. Acad. @ West Point as well as a massive carrilon on site. Truly magnificent.

I have also found a wonderful Russian recording with those incredibly deep basses that Russian Chorales seem to thrive on.

Does anyone have link to the lyrics IN RUSSIAN?

Glad to see this discussion alive. I tried to find these answers in 1998, but with little success. It seems that the
intervening years have served the internet well. Thanks to Casey for the historical tidbits and to Clay for the DSO info; I've gotten CD's from them before.

Surfing the 'net in an effort to find the Russiona lyrics to the hymn opening the mighty 1812 and delighted to have come across your site.

I certainly share Clay's desire to locate the Russian lyrics. I have an old tape of Eugene Ormandy the Philadelphia Orchestra - not marvellous quality at all and my Russian simply isn't good enough to get the words (Lord I have troubel with choirs in English!).

To all those experiencing difficulty in getting lyrics perhaps I can offer some sympathy. I worked in Moscow in the mid 80s and regularly went to the state-owned music stores 'Melodiya'. Ravaging through the 'gramplastinkis' there were the usual favourites and occassionally a really good find for next to nothing. But alas never once did I come across the 1812. Worse still the store staff had never heard of it. My local contacts could never give me an explanation why it wasn't avaialble. So I left empty handed and never once heard it played there.

So, I join your ranks as a frustrated 1812 chaser. But I am grateful for the leads where I can at least get the English language version (though I do not expect them to match the chilling Russian voices but would still be happy to settle for one). I understand ABC FM Radio here in Asutralia a couple of months ago played an excellent choral version. I'll follow that up and post the results.

thank you all, i used to have this cd and always wondered about the chorus lyrics. this is my favorite version of the overture. does anyone know which orchestra this is?

My wife, a Muscovite, is unable to decipher the russian lyrics, as choral lyrics are often difficult to grasp, and the old-style grammar adds to the confusion. Sort of like trying to pull renaissance English lyrics out of a piece. If anyone does get his mitts on the lyrics, po-russki, posting them here would be awesome.
Vsego dobrogo vsem,
J.

I am the conductor of the Buffalo Grove (IL) Symphonic Band. This Summer we plan to perform the 1812 Overture as arranged for Concert Band. Our community chorus will be joining us for Battle Hymn of the Republic and God Bless America. I would love to add the choral parts for the overture as well.

Does anyone know where they can be gotten? Are the existing recordings a case where the original hymn was simply sung over the setting used by Tchaikovsky or was it arranged? Also I understand the Kunzel recording uses vocal parts in the "battle" sequences of the work as well. Does anyone know if these have been published?

Thanks.

I don't know the answer to the just-above question, but: When I heard a recording with chorus (circa 1971), there was the opening hymn, and later there was a male chorus during the "battle" part. I insist that the purpose of the cannons was to drown out the Russian lyrics. If Italian, no cannons!

Some of the lyrics in Karajan's 1966 recording (sung by the Don Kosaken choir):
Ñïàñè, Ãîñïîäè, ëþäè Òâîÿ è áëàãîñëîâè äîñòîÿíèå Òâîå, ïîáåäû õðèñòîëþáèâîìó âîèíñòâó ...
íà ñîïðîòèâíûÿ äàðóÿ, è Òâîå ñîõðàíÿÿ Êðåñòîì Òâîèì æèòåëüñòâî ...
I donno what is sung during the first ellipsis. During the second ellipsis, they start by repeating some of the words, then seem to wonder off.
The above text is taken from two versions of today's hymn. There are many more. Perhaps looking into them all, one can find all the lyrics without understanding a word...
If anyone is up to the challenge, I recommend google.ru. Isn't there a better way?

IMHO, it sounds more like:

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud crying in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

And this, I submit makes VERY much better sense
in their situation, and in ours.

Just thought I should add, for the benefit of any Australian participants in this discussion that there will be a performance of the 1812 Overture with large choir singing in Russian (or the closest we can get to it) on May 10th and 12th at the Sydney Olympic Park Superdome. Judging by the rehearsals so far, it should be very powerful. A few weeks ago I would have thought - the 1812, you must be kidding. Now I think anyone who has the chance to be there and hear it sung by 500 voices, should grab it with both hands. It's glorious.

And of course, thanks to this list, I now understand what I'm singing.

Slavyanka has cd out with God preserve thy people. New Calvary has CD with God save the Tsar. Both CD's are a couple years old. Google and other serch engines have recorded sound bites available.

Oh how I have searched the world for an 8 track tape i had in the 70's with the 1812 on it with a full choral all the way through. It was magnificently done. It was in Cerilic, so I do not know the words, but I can sing it phonetically to the music. If anyone knows of this one, please post it.

I just did some listening, and though some of the lines are a bit hazy (I'm using a rather beat up casette...the mp3 is the same, so...), I get this (although a couple of words are definitely up for interpretation)

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take thee now our faith
and our grinding penitence.
Grant thee vict'ry
o'er our treacherous and creul enemies
and to our land bring peace.
Almighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
and by thy shining Holy Light
when thou [sow], Lord, peace again.
Oh mighty Lord, hear our prayer
and save our kingdom
forever, forever!

"sow" is the one very confusing word...it could be any number of otehr words, but sow makes the most sense with the rest, not tht it makes much at all

Does anyone have any idea what this 2 and a half year old, now 46 message string has to do with NWC?

No clue, but glad to find the discussion here! Thanks Noteworthysoftware!!!

David (reply 46): It shows that many NWC users are sophisticated enough to have heard of the 1812 Overture. You may recall that in recent memory, there have been other message threads that have not reached that level.

...this 2 and a half year old...string
Umm, it's over 3 and a quarter...

I count slow

And I too, on the search for the words to the prayer, have come across this web site and postings. I have read all your postings and I feel you are all on the right track however there are still some words that allude the ear.
the closest posting I can agree with is from DL Robinson
I have only one correction to make that my ears hear

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud cry in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

May this string go on for ever till the truth be known.! its out there somewhere :)

hmm over the exact translation from Russian into English over the text you can discuss a long time as Russian is lot more variated in use of words for emotions then English is.

Anyhow I have to agree that the Ouverture 1812 is very nice, though a bit bombastic at the end..can imagine Tchaikovsky did not like it in the beginning... he was asked it to compose it for the 70 year Birthday of the defeat of the French army and the retreat from Moscow. This was then used on the opening of the exhibition of Moscow in 1882. That is why both the Russian imperial national anthem and the French anthem are used.
The Tsar then (1812) was Alexander I and was still very young ( end of his teens - start 20's) and came over somewhat unexperienced to Napoleon ...

The Imperial Anthem lasted till - as you can imagine - till 1917....

Heyy - I also would love to find the russian text to the 1812 opening - it's great that there's so many of us that are so interested. What a peice!

I've been trying to find this text for a while, to no avail, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only one! The Russian Orthodox Church tries to maintain their old slavic language, so finding a modern Russian translation of their old texts is impossible. I lived in Russia for two years as a missionary, so I know modern Russian fairly well, but the old slavic language is very different. I don't know how much this helps, but here is my amateur modern translation of the same text Escontidu listed above(which is in old slavic):

Save, Lord, thy people and bless thy property (or inheritance or even kingdom?)
Give victory to our Christian army and by thy cross bless this land.

My favorite recording was a tape I had while I was in Russia. All I remember is that it was with the Mormon Tabernacle choir (I don't remember which orchestra played on it). Anyway, at the end, the bells and cannons were absolutely overwhelming. I left the tape when I came home and now I regret it. I can't find a comparable recording anywhere.

Here's my take:

I checked out a version of the 1812 on CD from my public library with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing at the beginning: It's the Sony Essential Classics version, the Valley Forge Military Academy Band performing, Col. D. Keith Feltham Conducting. It shares the CD with Symphony No. 4 in F Minor, Op. 36, and Marche slave, Op. 31, both by the Philadelphia Orchestra with Eugene Ormandy conducting.

I started searching for the lyrics again because I performed this piece with the South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts in Greenville, SC, for the 4th of July celebration. However, we did not sing the "pre-overture" portion as the MTC did, we sang at the very end, in Slavic. While all of the lyrics seem to escape me at the moment, I remember a lot were in the prepositional case (I study Russian now, did not then). I too will search for these specific lyrics and post if I can find.

By the way, if anyone attended SCGSA that summer (small chance) or saw the July 4th performance (again, small chance) maybe you can jog my memory, produce a program, a copy of the SATB, etc.

Sorry, should have mentioned that the performance was on the Fourth of July, 1993! So quite a while ago.

Wow, I live in Minneapolis and I'm playing this piece for wind ensemble, found some recordings of it, and really wanted the lyrics for the beginning. I can't believe you guys had it all, you rock!

ALAS! I have been searching high and low for the words too. But not so fast. I do not have them but I have some very valuable info on them. I contacted the Library of Congress through their web-site and received this answer to: the words to 1812. Written by V A Zhukovsky in 1814. Titled; Prayer of The Russian People. Now the rub. Can be found in The Complete Works of V A Zhukovsky Edited by A S Arkhangelsky vol 2 p77 vol 4 p23 I am told that any university or larger metropolitan library should have these works. I have read several different interpretations on this site but only one can be correct. i will continue to seek these works and when i do i will post the correct words for all.

I happened on this thread when I was looking for the words to the 1812 Overture.

Last week we sang the Choral version of the 1812 Overture in an outdoor concert in front of about 35,000 people, many of them school children. This was the last item and started in a darkened stadium, with the Tsar's prayer for peace. It is is a very mature prayer for a boy who was 13 in 1815.

The harmony was incredible, the words very moving and the music just great for those of us who sing bass. The words were different to those on some recordings:

(Key Eb major - The Tsar Alexander I is praying)
"Holy Father, I implore thee, hear my prayer.
From the lies of evil men, Lord deliver me.
O hear me; in my distress I cry unto thee, Lord, that thou might answer me.
I have dwelt among my enemies.
And have ever made my plea for peace with those who would peace destroy. (bar 23 - woodwind)
My earnest desire is peace. But when I speak, my foes all call for war (43 bars orch)

Alleluia, praise unto the God of hosts.
Praise, O praise the Lord in his mighty firmament (bells)
O praise him: for God takes pleasure in his people and adorns the meek with victory (bells)
This then is the glory for all his faithful people, Praise, O praise the Lord. (Key change to C major)

Father omnipotent, (Guns) God of all ages, Let all creation praise his holy name, (Hymn tune: Russia)
Praise, O praise the Lord, Praise the Lord (x 7)" (Band, orch, bells, canons, lasers, rockets, fireworks!!)

I have the SSAATTBB choral score, but not the full score. It was recorded, but I don't think it will be issued.

iclassics.com has many chorus clips of 1812, including Karajan

Well, lemme throw my 2-cents' worth in... My kid and I have been listening to the opener over and over and OVER. I think the "penitence" sounds more like "inheritance" prefaced maybe with "mine" or "thine". But still the missing syllables that would give it a complete, sensible thought really CAN drive one bonkers. Feedback?

Here is what my ears hear based on several listenings....

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and loud crying in penitence.
Grant victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forgive us

I just love that choral opening.

The (Chicago) Grant Park Symphony and Chorus are performing the 1812 Overture next week. I am the Russian coach. We are singing in Russian . . . does anyone still want any questions answered about this work's text?

The 1812 thread has been living for a long time, and I am sure it has many readers. Feel free to put in your ten cents' worth!

"....does anyone still want any questions answered about this work's text?"

Yes please - the lyrics in English would be very useful. I could add them (with your permission) to my nwc file (in the Scriptorium).

Tina

The Mormon Tabernacle Choie sang it this evening with the Boston Pops at the esplanade...you won't get any more current than this.
Charlestown, NH

I don't know if anyone is still checking back here, but I happened on the
forum also searching for the Russian words. I performed the 1812
Overture about two years ago with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra
and the May Festival Chorus. It was own of those last minute things, so I
unfortunately can't remember the lyrics as I do for almost every other
song I've ever done. Bummer. 'Spa- si Gaspodye na Russkiyay' or
something to that effect I think was the beginning of the song, but other
than that I can't remember.

I do however still have access to the score, so I will try to get a copy
(unfortunately I'll have to transliterate from the Cyrillic I think). Please let
me know if this would be helpful for anyone, or rather if anyone still
reads this.

*ONE* of those last minute things. (not own.. ugh)

Sorry, little things like that really bother me sometimes, especially when
there isn't the capacity for editing.

Yes Please Paul :-)

I'd only be able to add the Lyrics using Choir Aahs but as long as the words can be made to fit the notes.....

I don't know how to include URLs and stuff here, but my mail address is with the file in the Scriptorium.

Tina

P.S. You can edit messages by using the Preview button before submitting.

It is fairly simple to add a URL to a post, simply put an exclamation point before http: whatever.

This is the file you see when you click on the Hints link while creating a reply. Until I got used to it, I found it helpful to keep a hard copy of it handy.

Thanks Warren. I'll try to remember that next time. (Can't figure out the scripto thing though)

Tina

I am so glad I was directed to this site. All so very interesting and helpful. I did hear it on July 4th 2003 broadcast from DC. "Grabbed " me and wouldn't let go...now I can rest. Thanks everyone.

Hello all,

This is a great thread. I was astonished to see how long it has been going. Going back to the English lyrics, do any of you have a copy that says at the end, "And save our people forevermore"?

If so, any idea what it is off of? My mp3 tag doesn't have any info.

-----
Rom. 8:28-30

Can anyone suggest the name ofa recording that has a mixed voice choral of the 1812 overture that includes "Bozhe Tsaria Khrany"?I'm an ex chorusboy trying to produce my own show to go into Las Vegas and put 30 of us back to work.I am completing by myself, the last of 700 costumes from archive fotos worn to the Imperial Ball OF 1903,and need a vocalguide to teach the cast with to sing in the finale of the production number.I have been computerless looking for 3 years trying to find a copy.Thanks/SPACIBO!.

This is great!! Thanks for all the info. I ended up here also looking for a translation! I just bought another CD of the 1812 based on a description that it had the singing of the hymn. I have only yet listened with headphones on a PC and can't wait to get home and hear on my home system. Even so, it nearly brought tears to my eyes. DG CD with the Gothenburg Sympohny Orchestra, Chorus, Artillery Division and church bells!! CD also contains Marche slave and some other well-known pieces by Alexander Borodin and Rimsky-Korsakov. Highly recommend!

this is amazing...three and a half years or not..
I am a university student studying music, and This is one of our exam pieces. We got bonous marks for interpreting the lyrics and this site got me an A. Thanks for being such keeners.

Wow - the power of the internet.

I was googling for the lyrics to the 1812 Overture, also, and when I found this thread and saw that it was dated in 1999 I figured it was a dead thread. Cool to see posts as recent as yesterday.

I, too, remember back around 1988 or so having a tape with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing, in english, the intro to the 1812 Overture. I just downloaded a version of the Overture from itunes.com, but it is intrumental only, no choral nor cannons! :(

Does anyone have a URL to Amazon.com or something where the CD with the MTC singing and cannon fire version can be found?

Steve
steve@forth-armoury.com

I found it on Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000DS28/qid%3D1070479380/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-4897072-2197736#product-details

Product Details
Composer: Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Conductor: Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham
Label: Sony - #39784
Audio CD (May 17, 1990)
ASIN: B00000DS28

On this CD:

1. 1812 -- Festival Overture, for orchestra in E flat major, Op. 49
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

2. Slavonic March, for orchestra, Op. 31
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

3. Romeo and Juliet, fantasy-overture for orchestra in B minor (3 versions)
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

4. Eugene Onegin, opera, Op. 24 Waltz
Composed by Pyotr Il'yich Tchaikovsky
Performed by Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Conducted by Richard P. Condie, Col D. Keith Feltham

Hope this is helpful to all you 1812 fans!

Steve

Back in 1985 I bootlegged a copy of an LP. I think it was the Mormon Tabernacle choir one in question. There was a liner with printed lyrics which I remember (reinforced by frequent listening) to be as follows:

Mighty Lord, preserve us from jeopardy.
Take Thee now our faith and love, thine inheritance.
Grant thee victory o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our land bring peace.
O mighty Lord hear our lowly prayer,
And by Thy shining holy light.
Grant us, O Lord, peace again.
O mighty Lord hear our prayer
and save our people
Forever, forever!

The only main difference from Reply 62 is "thine inheritance" in line two. This reference seems to be almost directly from Psalm 28:11, and occurs in several catholic liturgies.

I have another recording (unfortunately with no reference to the text in the notes) in Russian that has the full chorus singing on the recapitulation of the opening chant near the end (talk about powerful!).

It's amazing to see a thread going on four years now, and I'd just like to add my input. Upon "borrowing" the song, using a file-sharing program, I heard the voices at the beginning, and was quite bewildered. Being a musician, it was a strange turn to hear this piece with voices, and therefore, I sought to find what exactly it was that they were singing. I moved the song to my sound equipment, and turned off all voices except for the basses. Once that was done, I could hear the (Anglish) words quite clearly, being that the bass voices are most often the most crisp, it seems. I'm quite sure of these lyrics, which I do believe double those of many of you out there:

Mighty Lord, Preserve us from Jeopardy
Take Thee now our Faith, and Love Thine Inheritance
(Grant Thee Victory) o'er our treacherous and cruel enemies
And to our Land bring Peace
Oh Mighty Lord, Hear our lowly Prayer
And by light shining holy light
Grant us, O' Lord, Peace Again

O' Mighty Lord Hear, Our Prayer
And Save our People
Forever, Forever.

You'll see that I've put (Grant Thee Victory) in parentheses. This is simply because the bass voices sustain a note here, that I can't seem to decipher. I placed 'Grant Thee Victory' there because other people had heard it clearly. Howevermuch it fits, though, with the prayer, I can't hear that strongly in the music, and so I am unsure as to that line.

Another version that I found was a different version of the Choral opening, and at first, I couldn't understand what the words were saying, until I turned down the voices except for the tenors, and heard quite clearly something in Latin. After listening a few more times, I recognized it as "Te Deum Laudamus", or at least, the first few lines of it, which I've re-written here (please excuse mistakes!)

Te deum laudamus te dominum confitemur
Te aeternum patrem omnis terra veneratur
Tibi omnes angeli Tibi caeli et universae potestates
Tibi cherubim et seraphim incessabili voce
proclamant
Sanctus sanctus sanctus dominus deus sabaoth
Pleni sunt celi et terra maiestatis gloriae tuae

That's what I've found. Long live the thread!

The "Te Deum" is widely used for such occasions. So, although I haven't heard the music in question, I would say that you are most likely correct about that.

I came upon this site looking for a literal translation (not the English paraphrase we've all heard and seem to remember bits of). Having picked up a phrase or two from earlier replies, I did a search which resulted in my ordering a CD of Russian Church Music by the Slavyanka Men's Chorus (through Amazon.com). The recording had side-by-side texts in Russian, phonetic transliteration, and English (and French & German).

O LORD, SAVE THY PEOPLE
Spasi, Gospodi, lyudi
Tvoya i blagoslovi
dostoyaniye Tvoye.
pobyedy pravoslavnym
khristianom
na soprovitivnyya daruya,
i Tvoye sokhranyaya
kryestom Tvoyim
zhityel' stvo.

O Lord, save Thy people
and bless Thine inheritance,
grant victories to the
Orthodox Christians
over their adversaries,
and preserve Thy dwelling
through Thy cross.

I listened to the Russian on the recording (the Gothenburg Symphony one Dave mentioned in an earlier reply) and could make out everything but the phrase "pobyedy pravoslavnym khristianom" pretty well. Here, there were extra words in the music that didn't fit. But I think I have what I was looking for. The next person who does a search will have a much easier time than we did.

I'm an Orthodox church musician who uses NoteWorthy (note: oblig NW comment!), and I just discovered this venerable thread. :-)

In addition to the English and Slavonic texts just volunteered, here are some links with more information, for those who might be interested in that text:

• http://www.justin.zamora.com/slavonic/analyses/tropar-cross.html gives the Church Slavonic text and a direct (literal) translation, aimed at people who want to learn Church Slavonic.
  
  
• http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/orthodox-faith/worship/elevation-of-the-cross.html describes the background of the feast most commonly associated with the troparion. Among other things, it says:
  
  "The day of the Elevation of the Cross became, as it were, the national holiday of the Eastern Christian Empire similar to the Fourth of July in the United States. ... The troparion of the feast, which was, one might say, the 'national anthem' sung on all public occasions in the Christian Empires of Byzantium and Russia, originally petitioned God to save the people, to grant victory in war and to preserve the empire 'by the virtue of the Cross.'"
  
  
• http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/publications/music/september/index.html gives links to PDF files containing Western-notation music for the troparion, in several different musical styles used by the (Russian-background) Orthodox Church in America. (Scroll down to Sept 14, Elevation of the Life-giving Cross.)
  
  
• Finally, since I happen to belong to a Greek Orthodox church, here's a link to the traditional Greek music (Byzantine chant) for the troparion. :-) On this page, http://sgpm.goarch.org/ematins/Music-Special.htm , if you look at the links under "Vespers Text and Music for the Elevation of the Precious Cross, Sep 14" and click on the one named "Western Notation", you'll be linked to a 36-page PDF file. The last two pages have the Greek (Byzantine chant) melody, with an English translation.
  
  (The PDF file in Byz notation stops just before that troparion should appear ... not sure why.)
  
  BTW, the monk who set this music also uses NoteWorthy ... )
  
  

Hope folks find this interesting. :-)

Dana Netherton
-------
I don't belong to any organized religion.
I'm an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

Dana, we keep running into each other on line, don't we! I hope everyone following this thread has been able to keep the two tunes straight; one is the pre-revolutionary Russian national anthem, ‘Bozhe tsaria khrani,’ composed by Aleksei L'vov, who was the director of the chapel choir of the imperial court. This is the one adapted to Protestant hymnody with the text ‘God the Omnipotent.’

The other, usually done by the orchestra, was originally intended to be sung, and is in some performances. This is ‘O Lord, save thy people and bless thine inheritance’--the troparion. The melody is not specific to this text, but is the generic melody for troparia of Mode 1 (or Tone 1) in Russian usage, based on the Obikhod choir book of the imperial court chapel, which was edited and published in the 1840s by, guess who, Aleksei L'vov! Every Russian choir sings it frequently.

You can hear this also, with totally different words, in Sergei Eisenstein's film ‘Ivan the Terrible,’ in the scene where the people are going in procession to beg Ivan to come out of retirement and tyrannize them again (Stalin was in power when the film was made). This is a gross anachronism. The Russians did not have this melody until a century after Ivan.

Stephen

I found out what this song was in a general musicology class. I've heard excerpts and pieces done here an there, but never knew what it really was till fall semester in my musicology class. Now that I have taken that class, and learned the history of this song. I now appreciate this song much more than I would have otherwise...

And last but not least, wow, this is a long thread. Keep it going if you must.

Google search for '1812 overture lyrics' brings up your forum in 3rd spot...pretty impressive IMO and I found what I needed to know back in 2002 somewhere, but the chat seem to be cycling, so it's also in 2003 and 2004..hehe

But hey...LONG LIVE THE THREAD!

Wow. I'm a 20 year old guy with a passion for music that, just to listen to it, lets you know you are alive. When I listen to a piece like the 1812 Overture, though I have no clue what they are saying, it stirs my soul. My blood pumps, my mood greatens, I feel like I could run around the block a few times. The arrangement, and others like it and greater, brings my heart alive and a tear to my eye. To see so many people that are interested in something like this really gives me a hope that things aren't all that bad. I just want to thank everyone that posts on here for the glimpse of what humanily SHOULD be.

When I was in the 8th grade, our symphonic band played the 1812 Overture for a local competition. Our band instructor made us practice this piece over and over and over until it literally became second nature to us. Low and behold, this piece has psychologically embedded itself within my mind even 21 YEARS LATER!! I downloaded an mp3 of it this evening and remembered each and every bit of it, note for note. Brought back a lot of memories for me =)

Anyway, the version I happened to have downloaded contained the intro with the choir. I had absolutely no idea what they were saying, and had no idea that they were even speaking it in English? Out of curiosity, I ran a quick search on Google.com and came across this messege board. What a trip it is to see that this topic thread was started about 5 years ago!!

That's all I wanted to say, really. Long live the 1812 Overture!! =)

Why is it called an 'overture' when it is not the prelude to something?

Because, in the 19th century, the "concert-overture" was invented. This is a independent composition in the same form as an opera overture, but played by itself, or as a "real" overture to a play or some such event. These go back at least to Beethoven ("Coriolan", "Consecration of the House", etc.), and include Mendelssohn's "Hebrides Overture" and Brahms's "Academic Festival Overture".

Reference, Harvard Dictionary of Music.

What does the 1812 Overture commemorate? Thanks.

I'd like to say it represented the War of 1812 between Britain and the US -=- Canadians (Brits?) burnt the White House and we are certain we won the war -=- but it wasn't written for that purpsoe.

Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write it to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Russia's victory over Napoleon in 1812.

Tchaikovsky wrote it in 1880. The commission was to mark the 1882 Moscow Exhibition, and specifically the consecration of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior which was built there to give thanks for the Russian victory during the Napoleonic Wars.

Source:
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/tchaikov/1812.html

Thanks so much! My high school choirs are performing the 1812 Overture with our school's Concert Ensemble, and it is my task to find the Russian text & translation, and then arrange the vocal parts. Thank goodness for you people -- you just made my job a lot easier!!

And of course... Wowza -- what a thread!!

I just invested in new car audio equipment and one of the lines from the literature said something like "...you need a good amp because say you're listening to the 1812 Overture, when those canons go off, you need all 500 watts and you need them immediately..." Well, I just had to try it, and now I'm hooked.

Does anyone remember the Telarc vinyl recording, with real cannon, and a groove that visibly wiggled? Not every record player could keep its needle in the groove!

I had to add my two cents worth. I ran across this thread while looking for the English version of the 1812 opening prayer. I used to know it by heart, but have since forgotten the words. When I used to live in Virginia (I was a seasonal ranger at Shenandoah National Park) my wife taught at a straight-laced quasi-religious private school near Front Royal. One day I was attending one of the school events and was asked by the headmaster to lead them in prayer. Seeing as how I'm an atheist, I don't KNOW many prayers, but I DID know the opening to the 1812. I recited the lines as best I could remember (no, I didnt sing them) and duly impressed the headmaster. Thus, the 1812 saved my butt.

I believe that's what's known as cannon law.

Ah-ha! If you want a copy of the vocal parts, you can only get them through Schirmer's Hal Leonard Music Dispatch: 1-800-637-2852, item # 50323210. It contains the original Russian lyrics, and the English lyrics, for the ENTIRE piece (including the children's chorus). Copies are only $1.60 each, but you must order a minimum of 5.

Lrics: (Russian & English)
Spasi Gospodi liudi Tvoia i blagoslovi
Grant salvation to Thy people, Lord, and we pray Thee bless

dostoianiie Tvoie.
Thine inheritance, O God.

Pobedy boriushchimsia za veru pravuiu i za sviatuiu rus,
Grant vict'ry to those who fight to save our righteous faith and our dear sacred land,

nasoprotivnyia daruia.
and from all evil deliver them.

I Tvoie sokhraniaia
Then the guardian of Thy grace

krestom Tvoim zhitelstvo.
the Cross will forever be.

Krestom Tvoi, zhitelstvo,
The Cross will forever be,

krestom Tvoim, krestom Tvoim, krestom.
The Cross will be, the Cross will be, the Cross.
---------------
U vorot, vorot, vorot,
At the gate, the gate, the gate,

vorot batiushkinykh,
gate to father's dear house,

ai, dunai, moi dunai, ai, veselyi dunai,
ai, dunai, my dunai, ai, sing we all dunai,

U vorot, vorot, vorot,
At the gate, the gate, the gate,

novykh matushkinykh,
gate to mother's dear house,

ai, dunai, moi dunai, ai, veselyi dunai,
ai, dunai, my dunai, ai, sing we all dunai,
---------------
Bozhe tsaria khrani, silny derzhavny,
God save our gracious Tsar, valiant and righteous,

tsarstvui na slavu, tsarstvui na strakh vragam.
reigning in glory, reigning against his foes.

Wow! I'm number 100!
What do I win?

A 21-gun salute would be appropriate.

I think that the 1812 Overture was great and I think he wrote that song or theme because he hated war and was happy to see it over. So I think Tchaikowsky was happy. Also I typed this because I was looking if Tchaikowsky hated War or not for a music project I'm doing. I happened to come aross this and I typing this now.

Rachel

Tchaikovsky was only born 25 years after the war finished! And the piece was written 68 years after the retreat from Moscow. Whatever his feelings about war in general, he certainly wouldn't be too influenced personally by the Napoleonic Wars. He might have been influenced by the Crimean War as a teenager, but I doubt it. The nineteenth century was (from 1815 onwards) on the whole actually quite peaceful compared to other centuries.

As I pointed out in reply 93 above, Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write the music. I doubt very much that it had anything to do with a dislike of war. Indeed the piece is a "flag-waver," likely to stir the blood.

His Marche Slav, on the other hand, could be a protest (although I doubt it...)

The Crimean War was fought near the Crimea River.

I would say that the Crimean War was fought on the Crimea Peninsula, in t e Black Sea. Florence Nighingale earned eternal acclaim there.

Crimea River = Cry Me a River

Near the Eyecryda River.

Over You.

I, too, found this thread while searching for the lyrics of the Russian Orthodox hymn used at the beginning of the 1812 Overture. After having heard numerous times my recording of a performance that opens with a choir instead of a cello, I have to say that the interpretation of the lyrics in this thread is pretty much on the money. I disagree at only one point--I definitely hear the line you all have rendered "Grant us, O Lord, peace again" as "Grant us, O Lord, peace. Amen." I don't hear the guttural quality of a hard "G" in any voice part at that point. But perhaps the choir saw fit to "swallow" its enunciation for the sake of a smooth slide into the next pitch. What do you all think?

I can't offer an opion on the 1812 lyrics, but as a choir singer I can tell you that once in a while, a word is changed for better singability.

I have seen (in print) two versions of Gounod's Ave Maria; one ended in "Ave, Ave," and the other ended in "Amen, Amen."

Robert A. in reply 65 said: Feel free to put your ten cents' worth in, so as I am a poor Englishman here is my tuppence worth. My CD of this work is in Post Office Red - or very near to - is that a warning to keep away, or to ensure that you can easily spot it in the heap? Tina B knowing what I think of PT will probably guess that I agree with PT's assessment of the work as reported by Casey in repy 23. Even so, it is worth listening to from time to time, what was it that the Bard made Prince Harry say? Something about his early life being a foil that would make his later seem so much better.

1812 is the best peice of music written

By what criteria are you evaluating it?

There seem to be two different hymns listed in these postings, given the English translations of them. We have the Russian words for one of them, but not the other - the one that most people are transcribing (unless I'm being stupid? Quite possible). I would love a copy of the words and music, if anyone can offer them.

I used to listen to this all the time (over and over, I mean, it was on 8-track). It may be the same English version talked about above. I haven't listened to it for about 25 years, but I seem to recall the words "Oh Mighty God hear our prayer, and save our people, forevermore" at the end of the singing, and the start of the orchestra. It was either the Columbia or RCA version with the "Serenade for Strings" as the other piece. 8-tracks don't have a flip side, of course.

It was Columbia, Eugene Ormandy and The Philadelphia.

As an American-born Russian Orthodox Christian, who has sung and heard "O Lord Save They People" throughout my entire life, I wondered if many non-Orthodox Americans cared about the lyrics (especially with all of the 4th of July exposure). It's been interesting to read all of your responses, questions, concerns.

<<I'd like to say it represented the War of 1812 between Britain and the US -=- Canadians (Brits?) burnt the White House and we are certain we won the war -=- but it wasn't written for that purpsoe.

Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write it to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Russia's victory over Napoleon in 1812.>.

You brought back memories from 1970. I actually had a history teacher tell us that "the 1812 Overture was about the War of 1812." When I offered a polite "Scuse me..." and mentioned that it referred to Napoleon etc., I was rebuked with "The War of 1812 was like World War I and World War II - it took place in LOTS of countries."

Of course, I hear and sing "God Save Thy People" a lot now, in church, and have often wondered about what happened to that teacher and if any of the other kids were ever impacted by what she said regarding her imagined 19th Century World War.....probably not.

Another use for the song - we often use it as the song that accompanies the entrance of bishops and other members of the head table at banquets etc. It fits nicely.

Subdeacon P's comments brought back memories of a grade school experience, years ago... The school had vocabulary lists, containing words and definitions, to be memorized and tested each week. One week, "keek" was defined as part of a ship's hull. No amount of persuasion, backed by any dictionary however large or small, could persuade the teacher that the word should be "keel."

Teachers are not always correct (they are human...).
The good teachers are the ones who can admit it.