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Author Topic: What NWC 2 SHOULD HAVE!  (Read 14692 times)
klerg
« on: 2005-12-24 05:03 AM »

Before i get into the features of NWC 2, is there a way to beam eight notes and/or shorter notes together with DIFFERENT stem directions? (i.e. when the top layer's stem is up, while the bottom is down). When i beam them, ONLY the top layer get beamed, while bottom remains UN-beamed.

Now, onto NWC 2! Other notation programs like Encore and Finale, in particular, ONLY allow a maximum amount of notes as dictated by the Time Signature. Noteworthy Composer, on the other hand, will freely let you insert 5 or more quarter notes in 4/4 time. Actually, I think Noteworthy should let you put in as many notes as you like provided a time signature is NOT specified.

But, once a time signature is inserted it REALLY helps a lot when your restricted to input no note or combination of notes that exceed the time signature. Another nifty feature NWC 2 should have is the 8va and 15ma symbols, which, as we all know, avoids those nasty leger lines! Notes with an up & down stem direction, intended for unison passages that are played by separate groups of instrument is a time-saver!
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Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #1 on: 2005-12-24 05:26 AM »

G'day klerg,
Beaming: Use the layering function...  there are workarounds for more complicated beaming functions like between staves etc. that would be nice to have.

Forced barlines: Please NO - the lack of forced barlines is one of the single most useful things about editing in NWC - Audit barlines will, for the most part, resolve barline location issues, but forced ones - No Way, PLEASE - that alone has steered me very firmly away from several other notation packages (including both Finale and Encore - though their user interfaces totally suck in general IMHO).  It so thoroughly interferes with the notation process (for me) that it can totally bugger up the whole thing!

In anycase there are several work-around processes that would fail completely if this were included.

Yes: 8va, 8va bassa, 15ma and even 15ma bassa would be most welcome - as would many other features, and again, like many other missing features there are effective workarounds.

Notes with up & down stem direction: nice, but not actually necessary - this can easily be achieved with both chording and layering.

Merry Christmas,
Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
Rob den Heijer
« Reply #2 on: 2005-12-24 06:31 AM »

Forced barlines: No, no, double no and an extra pint of no for the weekend.

Other items: I can gladly repeat what I have said before, in other threads: When some of the workarounds are so widely used, it is time to enhance NWC so that workarounds are no longer necessary. It softens the learning curve.

For all of you with access to the Newsgroup (so that's everybody with the proper CD, yes?) check out the Twelve Days of Christmas - it's a scream!

Merry Christmas,
Rob.
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Tina
« Reply #3 on: 2005-12-24 06:37 AM »

In addition to what Lawrie has said, if you wnat bar lines to tell you that you have entered notes correctly, the best way is to have a 'conductor' staff - with the same time sig as on the working ones - and fill with whole note rests. As you enter the notes you can see if the bar lines match.

Re 8va etc. In nwc 2 you can define these in the nwcitree file with the appropriate transposition, then insert an instrument patch.

Tina
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Rick G.
Virtuoso
« Reply #4 on: 2005-12-24 06:48 AM »

Please, no forced barlines! Learn to count.

In NWC2:
Octave shifts can be done using an instrument patch.
8va is transpose +8, 8vb is -8
15va is either 15 or 16 (if I ever needed it, I'd know which).
Uncheck &Send Patch. When done, another ipatch with transpose=0 gets you back to loco.  Really simple.

If you cand tolerate 8va instead of 8va (which I can't - grr...), you can even use it for the instrument name (after you uncheck Preserve Width (another grr...)
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Registered user since 1996
klerg
« Reply #5 on: 2005-12-24 07:09 AM »

I don't need to beam between staves. You see, in ONE staff I have just two eight notes and underneath that, I have two more eight notes. When i beam them, ONLY the top two eight notes (which have the up-stem direction) get beamed, while the bottoms ones stay UN-beamed. Layering doesn't seem to beam them either.

I don't understand the case against forced barlines. Explain why forced barlines pose a problem in more detail, please. What are audit barlines, anyway? Also, the symbol for glissando, NOT the squiggly line, but the one with a sideways "gliss." and a line under it would be great, too! What is chording? How can i get notes w/ up & down stem direction? What are these workarounds you write of?

Btw, what do you ppl use as text for the natural sign (i.e I use this: # for sharps, and this: b, simply a lower case B , for flats, as charmap doesn't have a natural for me to copy)

Thanks!

and a Happy New Year!
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Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #6 on: 2005-12-24 07:26 AM »

G'day again klerg,
Beaming: I won't go into a full on lesson here, but basically you have 2 staves, one voice is on the top staff with all stems up, the second voice is on the next staff with all stems down.

Beam each staff as appropriate.  On the first staff, go to its properties and on the "Visual" tab select "Layer with next staff".  From the "View" menu, select "Allow layering".

The result is that the 2 staves now overlay each other and your beamed notes work correctly.

Forced barlines: Mate, just work with the product for a while.  You will very quickly come to appreciate the lack of this feature.  Actually, if you want an editing comparison, download Finale Notepad (it's a freebie) and try to create a work in it, and then the same work in NWC - you will soon realise just how superior the NWC user interface is!  Especially if you're trying to enter several voices.

As for accidentals (natural), unless you're editing text, they're available on the tool bar.  If you want access to accidentals as text, you can use the NVCV15.TTF for NWC1.75 or the NWC2STDA.TTF for NWC2.  You can also download the Boxmark fonts from the scripto (see the front page for a link)

Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
Rick G.
Virtuoso
« Reply #7 on: 2005-12-24 08:53 AM »

The case against forced barlines is:
Sometimes, we just want to quickly bang in a bunch of notes, hit {F5} and hear what it sounds like.  Most of us are not drummers. The meter is not the most important thing in our lives.

Audit Bar Lines is a good way to ruin an hour's work. (just kidding, well, mostly)

If you are willing to learn how to do some advanced layering, you should never need to put a text accidental in.

The newsgroup is the best place to learn.
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Registered user since 1996
David Palmquist
« Reply #8 on: 2005-12-24 12:36 PM »

I don't want forced bar lines, either.  They would be annoying if I'm writing triplets, since the tripletizing is done after the notes are entered.

One reason klerg gives for the bidirectional beaming is "Notes with an up & down stem direction, intended for unison passages that are played by separate groups of instrument is a time-saver!"   By all means use it for this, but also consider just using the conventional instruction a2 or even a text entry "unison" to reduce clutter.  I was recently surprised to find my seatmates in one group, experienced musicians, didn't know what a2 meant, which is why I'm suggesting it here.
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Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #9 on: 2005-12-24 07:09 PM »

Merry Christmas all!

G'day Rick,
Audit Bar Lines is a good way to ruin an hour's work  I understand your pain :) but don't forget "<Ctrl-Z> is your friend!"  :)

G'day David,
umm (says Lawrie showing his iggerence) I don't know what a2 means either - please edjamakate me.  From context I think I can guess, but an accurate explanation would be welcome.

G'day klerg,
The case against forced barlines - hmm, the reasons are probably as varied as the number of NWC users but here are a couple:
  • free form input allows ideas to be roughly notated before having to be too worried about rhythmic pattern
  • when making changes to a voice (adding and deleting notes, rests, changing time values etc.) you don't want the software forcing you all over the shop just because it doesn't fit the software's view on where the barlines should be and thus breaking up notes and tieing them over barlines etc. when the end result won't be that anyway.
  • when using varying metronome marks (hidden) to make fake n-tuplets
  • when matching other voices by varying note values so the match up with the above...
  • when inputing triplets.
This list is what I could think of in the time it took me to type - perhaps 1 minute.  I'm sure there are lots more reasons that other users could just a easily list just as quickly.

I highly recommend you download and read the Command summary on the scripto.

Also, as advised in an earlier post,  if you are a registered user, signup for newsgroup access here: https://www.noteworthysoftware.com/newsgroup/signup.php

Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
David Palmquist
« Reply #10 on: 2005-12-25 04:10 AM »

a2
from http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/  (emphasis mine)

A due
(Ah DOO-ay)
[It., for two]
---------
For two voices or instruments; a duet. Also used to indicate that two instruments playing from the same part or score are to play in unison, after divisi or a solo passage for one of the instruments.

-----------
I seem to recall learning it in my youth, while taking clarinet lessons.  Perhaps it isn't encountered often on other instruments.
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David Palmquist
« Reply #11 on: 2005-12-25 04:14 AM »

... and I forgot to say,

"m e r r y  C h r i s t m a s  !!!"
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Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #12 on: 2005-12-25 07:57 AM »

Hey thanks David, I live and I learn - sometimes :)

Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
Rob den Heijer
« Reply #13 on: 2005-12-25 09:03 AM »

Much a2 about nothing, then?
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Francis Beaumier
Virtuoso


« Reply #14 on: 2005-12-25 05:02 PM »

Hi and Merry Christmas!

I ran across a2 playing the trombone in an enemble and it was I that was given the "didn't you know" look.  I was told it meant "all together."  That's way too modern sounding, but, hey, close enough :-D.

Rob: I really have enjoyed your sense of humor.  I can only hope that I will have as much command over Spanish, which I am currently studying, to pun like that.  Not having read all of them, Much Ado About Nothing is my favorite Shakespeare play.  Brings back good memories of my high school shakespeare class.  Interesting fact: there is considerable evidence that "nothing" was pronounced exactly like "noting" is/was.  Bring on the music notation puns...
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Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
De Pere, WI
Rick G.
Virtuoso
« Reply #15 on: 2005-12-26 01:12 AM »

Well, that certainly describes us - Much ado about noting
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Registered user since 1996
Rob den Heijer
« Reply #16 on: 2005-12-26 05:22 PM »

Rick G: For want of an aisle, you had me rolling on the landing.
Francis: I like word games and puns. One of my best started in the newsgroup. The title of the thread was 'Accidental bug report'. You can guess the content. I added my reply: If all the insects on my windscreen would write a post mortem from the Great Beyond, what an Accidental Bug Report we would have!
I simply write them down and think nothing about them - until I see the reactions.
Thanks.
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Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #17 on: 2005-12-26 05:57 PM »

G'day Francis,
I just tried to access you web site from your BIO and got a seeq site with pop-ups...  Is http://beaumier.tk/?NWC still around?

Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
Francis Beaumier
Virtuoso


« Reply #18 on: 2005-12-26 09:30 PM »

Hi Lawrie,
Unfortunately, the free server I was hosting it on, 000k2.com, disappeared one day never to come back.  Rather than retreat, tail between my legs, to 20m.com, where I had hosted the site, I just pouted instead.  Problem is, I really got used to having all the features I had at 000k and I don't get as many features at 20m.com.  But now would be a good time to resurrect the thing, since it would help me attract clients in web design.  If anyone knows of a host that allows perl/cgi scripts, password protection, and relatively unobtrusive ads for free, let me know.  Oh, and thanks for mentioning my bio.. it needed an update, too.
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Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
De Pere, WI
Lawrie Pardy
Virtuoso


« Reply #19 on: 2005-12-26 09:43 PM »

G'day Francis,
no worries - let us know when you've updated?

Thanks, Lawrie
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I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums
Francis Beaumier
Virtuoso


« Reply #20 on: 2005-12-26 09:55 PM »

But of course!
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Sincerely,
Francis Beaumier
De Pere, WI
Geoff Walker
« Reply #21 on: 2005-12-28 06:10 AM »

Further case against forced barlines.

I have an interest in early music where in the original there were no bar lines. Bar lines only came into use during the 17th century.

While nwc does not provide for pre- 17th cent. notation, nor can I reasonably expect it to, you can capture something of the flavour of early notation using modern note forms. In fact I use hidden barlines for editing purposes, but it means I can use flexible bar lengths to avoid having to tie notes across bar lines which in the original would have been a longer note symbol. for example a minim not two tied crotchets, semibreve not two tied minims etc. as you see in many modern editions of early music.

Regards

Geoff
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